The Spectrum

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The Spectrum

Postby g33x0R » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:13 am

...Autism spectrum, in case you're wondering. Also, Asperger's syndrome is soon to be dropped from the DSM-V, and will be merged with autism in general, but I'm going to keep calling it that where convenient. It's all shades of grey from now on, varying degrees of severity, from `mildly nerdy' to `rain man' [which actually wasn't based on an autistic person at all, but you get the idea].

[...]
Also as someone ASD, no... edward doesn't seem at all ASD. I'm not like edward, though I live in abusive, shitty situations, and none of my ASD friends and acquaintances are like him, either, and there are sadly enough of them in shitty situations to tell that this is not something directly ASD related. I know there's a lot of misinformation on what ASD is, but being on the autism spectrum doesn't lead to that sort of behavior on its own. (In my experience, 'normal' people are far more likely to ignore others' feelings than autistic ones, for various reasons I won't go into as I'm already making this longer than intended)

Most seem;
  • Somewhat lonely,
  • Puzzled by social rules and norms, and other `unspoken rules' [which of course contributes to the loneliness],
  • Oblivious to and/or confused by non-verbal cues,
  • Rational, sometimes to the point of trying to rationalize things that flat-out *don't* make that kind of sense [human behaviour, for example],
  • Attached to daily rituals / interests / patterns / rules of behaviour / systems of thought which, in my experience, serve to offer some stability in a world that doesn't make much sense otherwise.
So those are the qualities I was picking up on.

But one thing I've noticed is, people on the spectrum are often *better* at reading other people's `online body language', eg the tone and flavour of a forum post, not just its content. So Edward fails on that count.

I wouldn't say aspies [including myself] ignore others' feelings, but there is some difficulty figuring out *what* another person's feeling, and then, what to do about it, how to respond.

It's funny, you'd expect someone with weakened sensory filters to be super-empathetic and responsive to others, but in fact it's overwhelming and often, a person's `emotional radar' just shorts-out and shuts down. Personally, I have no trouble relating to people on a one-on-one basis, or even small groups, often picking up on things others would miss. But too many people at once gets confusing, too many expressions and mixed signals to keep track of.

Others simply stay out of the emotional arena altogether, because even one other person is too confusing. Some can't even identify their own feelings properly.

But getting back to the Jon / Becca thing, if indirectly, and addressing your point about shitty / abusive situations... I remember a thread on wrongplanet.net where people were wondering why aspies and auties are drawn to people with bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorder, and other volatile conditions... But the answer seemed perfectly simple to me. People like that are *not_subtle*. You know all those weird, unbreakable, unspoken little social rules we suck at decoding? Those unwinnable trap-questions like `Does this make my ass look too big?' Kiss all of that goodbye; a highly volatile person is at least easier to read, if not necessarily safe to be around.



Banzai!

Patrick.
"No human motive is ever entirely pure."
-- William Gibson, `The Winter Market'
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Re: The Spectrum

Postby Diloolie » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:17 am

I disagree that this certain person is puzzled by social norms, as this certain person seems willing to follow convention on things like shaming of people who have sex as well as other biased stereotypes I can't bring to mind right now. I also don't feel any confusion or obliviousness about non-verbal cues because internet, but I think it's very clear that the user is not rational, and goes in circles of irrationality looping around the same (I suspect purposely) self-destructive thoughts for attention-seeking. People have repeatedly made it clear why we react badly to this user, and it's all been shrugged off with "yeah, you're right I'm forever alone", so I don't get the feeling this user CARES about what people think of him, and seems to have ASD traits because of this. I mean, I recall at least one instance where I tried to patiently point out "it's because you said X that nobody wants to hear you", and the response was a written-out shrug, at best.

I agree with the online body language stuff because I've seen that happen a lot. Online 'social rules' are a lot easier to figure out instead of irl ones because you can read others' conversations without being a part of them and those conversations can include links to things. And sometimes my brain won't connect so quick to things, but the internet knows all, so it's easy to figure out. And once I started making one ASD friend online, it was followed by more and it's nice to know I can trust I'll be listened to with them. I never had that experience with non-ASD/allistic people. Online interactions were in either one of two camps... very good or very bad (and one occasion, where we met up for the first time and I thought it went well, ended with the person harping on me for not accepting being talked down to because they wanted to talk about their familial abuse and me doing what we'd done before, which was share stories and verbally support the other, was somehow terribad and I was blocked in a really fucked up way), whereas most autistic people have leaned towards good. :)

I definitely feel the confusion of big groups, though. Especially when everyone keeps talking over each other, getting louder and LOUDER and you're just holding your ears and going "UUGH HAPPY PLACE" and stimming to keep it under control. I've found that my emotional range starts out with extreme patience and willingness to listen, but if someone shuts that down, I 'shut off' and just... walk away. If not physically, then emotionally. Which is what I've done with this specific user lately.

As for your last paragraph, that speaks to me. I always thought it was just ME who was drawn to my abusive ex, and that it was because _I_ didn't notice the warning signs, but you're saying the warning signs are what drew me... and that makes a lot of sense. So thanks for that.
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Re: The Spectrum

Postby g33x0R » Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:37 pm

Diloolie wrote:[edward18 stuff, snipped]
I also don't feel any confusion or obliviousness about non-verbal cues because internet
[...]
I agree with the online body language stuff because I've seen that happen a lot. Online 'social rules' are a lot easier to figure out instead of irl ones because you can read others' conversations without being a part of them and those conversations can include links to things.

Maybe it's the *lack* of actual, physical body language, expressions, etc. A person's phrasing and choice of words say a lot of the same things [as body language], with less noise to cut through.

And sometimes my brain won't connect so quick to things, but the internet knows all, so it's easy to figure out. And once I started making one ASD friend online, it was followed by more and it's nice to know I can trust I'll be listened to with them. I never had that experience with non-ASD/allistic people. Online interactions were in either one of two camps... very good or very bad (and one occasion, where we met up for the first time and I thought it went well, ended with the person harping on me for not accepting being talked down to because they wanted to talk about their familial abuse and me doing what we'd done before, which was share stories and verbally support the other, was somehow terribad and I was blocked in a really fucked up way), whereas most autistic people have leaned towards good. :)

There's a semi-regular get-together here for aspies and autistics to meet for dinner and/or coffee -- also open to friends and family of, and other people who might be interested, for whatever reasons. Heard about it when they were mentioned in the local newspaper, so the first one I went to was rather crowded.

It was the first time I walked into a room full of people [mostly strangers, at that], and didn't feel out of place. No big deal really, no agenda, not a formal meeting, just a bunch of people sitting around munching, chatting about whatever came to mind. The big deal was that it was no big deal.

I've been back, but not as often as I'd like. :–)

I definitely feel the confusion of big groups, though. Especially when everyone keeps talking over each other, getting louder and LOUDER and you're just holding your ears and going "UUGH HAPPY PLACE" and stimming to keep it under control.

Image

I've found that my emotional range starts out with extreme patience and willingness to listen, but if someone shuts that down, I 'shut off' and just... walk away. If not physically, then emotionally. Which is what I've done with this specific user lately.

Now that you mention it, yeah, sometimes, but not always for the same reasons. Usually, it's when I see no point in interacting with someone, and cut any verbal exchange down to the bare minimum necessary to work together, coexist peacefully, or whatever.

As for your last paragraph, that speaks to me. I always thought it was just ME who was drawn to my abusive ex, and that it was because _I_ didn't notice the warning signs, but you're saying the warning signs are what drew me... and that makes a lot of sense. So thanks for that.

...Probably safer to be a male aspie with an unstable girlfriend than the other way around. Not necessarily *easier*, mind you, but physically safer. Sorry about the `banzai' btw. I tend to say that, usually under my breath, before jumping into something totally new and/or ill-advised. Or when I go play in traffic. :–) [I did mention biking for transportation, yes?]

Still looking for a crazy with a heart of gold. Best of luck to you, too.



Cheers,

Patrick.
"No human motive is ever entirely pure."
-- William Gibson, `The Winter Market'
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Re: The Spectrum

Postby Warrl » Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:20 pm

Nelson, what little gem are you sharing? No link in your post.
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Re: The Spectrum

Postby ShadeTail » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:37 am

Warrl wrote:Nelson, what little gem are you sharing? No link in your post.

It was a troll post. Lately we've been getting a bunch of spam accounts that do this. They copy a post from one topic thread and paste it into another. I've been zapping them when they pop up.
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Re: The Spectrum

Postby Warrl » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:17 pm

ShadeTail wrote:
Warrl wrote:Nelson, what little gem are you sharing? No link in your post.

It was a troll post. Lately we've been getting a bunch of spam accounts that do this. They copy a post from one topic thread and paste it into another. I've been zapping them when they pop up.


Dang, and it actually made sense and seemed appropriate - aside from not having the link it seemed to promise. Forgetting to actually put in the link is not exactly unheard-of...
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Re: The Spectrum

Postby ShadeTail » Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:05 am

Warrl wrote:
ShadeTail wrote:
Warrl wrote:Nelson, what little gem are you sharing? No link in your post.

It was a troll post. Lately we've been getting a bunch of spam accounts that do this. They copy a post from one topic thread and paste it into another. I've been zapping them when they pop up.


Dang, and it actually made sense and seemed appropriate - aside from not having the link it seemed to promise. Forgetting to actually put in the link is not exactly unheard-of...

I just happened to recognize it. I don't remember which topic it came from, but it was definitely a cut-and-paste.
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