I just wanted to know how his date went..27-07-2015

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Re: I just wanted to know how his date went..27-07-2015

Postby tounces7 » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:27 pm

Hah, I just realized....

"Be Be Okay"

Second Panel.

Linda is apparently hiccuping.
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Re: I just wanted to know how his date went..27-07-2015

Postby Prestwick » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:01 am

tounces7 wrote:
Seriously?

So you'd prefer someone who is dumb, dull, foolish, and negligent?


Well, actually, yes.

Theres a reason why characters like Alan out of "The Hangover" and Fat Amy out of "Pitch Perfect" are endearing to and invoke sympathy from with audiences. This isn't about who we'd prefer as a personal friend but who we'd prefer as a character to root for which is why Katia is more popular than Linda...
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Re: I just wanted to know how his date went..27-07-2015

Postby ailorn » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:47 am

Katia's ignorance and self interest is hurting more people than Linda's has currently. As reprehensible as Lindas'a choice to get with Alex has been, it seems to ultimately work out in Candi's favor. Alex may have done the same thing eventually, but now Candi got to deal with it and move on sooner. Katia needs this wake up call to recognize that not everyone is OK with casual sex just because they say they are, and that her lack of insight is going to hurt people and possibly ruin friendships.
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Re: I just wanted to know how his date went..27-07-2015

Postby Attalus » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:42 am

tounces7 wrote:Seriously?

So you'd prefer someone who is dumb, dull, foolish, and negligent?
No, I would prefer someone who is empathetic, humble, peppy, and sweet natured. You must never have been associated with many weasel-people. Those traits (smart, cunning, clever, and observant) are not innately likable traits. Hitler was all of the above, as was the "clever girl" velociraptor. Linda is not being friendly or "changed." she is being dismissive and patronizing.
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Re: I just wanted to know how his date went..27-07-2015

Postby Weltall84 » Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:59 pm

ailorn wrote:Katia's ignorance and self interest is hurting more people than Linda's has currently. As reprehensible as Lindas'a choice to get with Alex has been, it seems to ultimately work out in Candi's favor. Alex may have done the same thing eventually, but now Candi got to deal with it and move on sooner. Katia needs this wake up call to recognize that not everyone is OK with casual sex just because they say they are, and that her lack of insight is going to hurt people and possibly ruin friendships.


That is VERY debatable. We don't know how many people Linda has burned with her behavior; given she has zero friends, we can assume it's been near legion. Even if Linda hasn't hurt anyone 'currently' that doesn't erase past behavior nor give her a pass just because she isn't hurting anyone 'now'. Her attitude hasn't changed, she's still the same woman and hasn't really made any real attempts to change for the better.

Katia's thoughtlessness is indeed causing issues; but let's remember Katia came from a sheltered up bringing as well as being uber-shy; and only NOW is exploring stuff that she probably should have had some experimentation with prior. Again everyone's experience is different; and ultimately Katia's issues are 'wanting her cake and eating it too". She wants to have her bubble of 'safe casual flings' but also likes to keep Thad on her 'list' because she likes him and he's 'safe, and fun'. Yet Thad wants more; she doesn't or isn't willing to compromise there; and yet she still wants that hook in their friendship while Thad is trying to move on so his romantic feelings for Katia don't ruin their friendship.

While Linda is being amazingly insightful; as others pointed out she's still being a patronizing ass about it with her bleak world view. Katia's main issue is ignorance and ignorance can be educated into enlightenment; Linda knows what she does is bullshit, and tries to duck accepting she's been a horrible person every step of the way. She's still acting like Katia 'should' know the root of her issues; when Linda is ignoring that Katia is 'that' kind of innocent who's dating experience was ZERO until she started college. Katia is still learning stuff Linda figured out from years of dating experience (and little good it did her).

Also....no just FUCK NO!! It doesn't matter if it "worked out for Candi" the break up with Alex is STILL affecting Candi. Yes it opened her eyes that Alex was a fucking douchebag but she STILL has trust issues; she thinks she's not worth pursuing, she is afraid to have that intimate bond again because she got burned with a DOUBLE WHAMMY OF BETRAYAL! Do not ever speak of any positive words towards the break up. Even if there was inevitable pain for Candi, it still doesn't make it right for what Linda and Alex did; Candi's choice to end the relationship on her terms was taken from her; Linda butted into things that should have just been between Alex and Candi. So just....stop read what you typed re-read the entire fallout of the break up and ask yourself if Linda "did" Candi a favor. No she didn't, she served the needs of "Linda", not anyone else's.
Last edited by Weltall84 on Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: I just wanted to know how his date went..27-07-2015

Postby RDrd » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:18 pm

I'd really like to know more about why Katia is so oblivious. "I went to an all-girl's school" doesn't cut it. Boys are not another species, and she's just as oblivious to girls' feelings as well.

She's outgoing. She's socially oblivious. She's boy crazy and wants casual sex with as many guys as possible- and genuinely doesn't have emotional baggage from it.

I'm not saying this is bad- I'm just saying it's very unusual. Although it does suggest some sort of difficulty understanding social cues. I have a similar problem- I have to consciously think through some interactions and it can take me hours to realize I missed something. I'm just really curious about what's up with her.
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Re: I just wanted to know how his date went..27-07-2015

Postby BenjaminT » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:50 pm

RDrd wrote:I'd really like to know more about why Katia is so oblivious. "I went to an all-girl's school" doesn't cut it. Boys are not another species, and she's just as oblivious to girls' feelings as well.


I could be remembering this wrong (maybe it was speculation and not something in the comic) but I thought the reason Katia went to an all-girl's school is because her parents are ultra-protective. If that's true, she may have been more isolated than her average peer at her last school. It wouldn't surprise me if she was home schooled before that. It wouldn't surprise me if she wasn't allowed in extra-curricular activities. Each of those things on their own doesn't make a person lacking in social skills necessarily but put together it starts to add up. Plus, a certain amount of it is likely just her personality. Some people just tend to lean more that way.

edited to add: also remember Katia revealed that she used to look on the negative side of things a lot and that's part of why she wanted to connect with Linda. If that negativity was pretty extreme, it's possible that she may have some self-imposed isolation as well.
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Re: I just wanted to know how his date went..27-07-2015

Postby cursormortis » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:35 am

Attalus wrote:
tounces7 wrote:Seriously?

So you'd prefer someone who is dumb, dull, foolish, and negligent?
No, I would prefer someone who is empathetic, humble, peppy, and sweet natured. You must never have been associated with many weasel-people. Those traits (smart, cunning, clever, and observant) are not innately likable traits. Hitler was all of the above, as was the "clever girl" velociraptor.

Welp. Godwin's Law, everybody. I guess this discussion is over. Attalus wins because Nazis.

Seriously, you know who else had those traits? Hermione Granger. Traits don't mean shit. It's all in how you use them.
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Re: I just wanted to know how his date went..27-07-2015

Postby Sylvanaerie » Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:29 am

BenjaminT wrote:
RDrd wrote:I'd really like to know more about why Katia is so oblivious. "I went to an all-girl's school" doesn't cut it. Boys are not another species, and she's just as oblivious to girls' feelings as well.


I could be remembering this wrong (maybe it was speculation and not something in the comic) but I thought the reason Katia went to an all-girl's school is because her parents are ultra-protective. If that's true, she may have been more isolated than her average peer at her last school. It wouldn't surprise me if she was home schooled before that. It wouldn't surprise me if she wasn't allowed in extra-curricular activities. Each of those things on their own doesn't make a person lacking in social skills necessarily but put together it starts to add up. Plus, a certain amount of it is likely just her personality. Some people just tend to lean more that way.

edited to add: also remember Katia revealed that she used to look on the negative side of things a lot and that's part of why she wanted to connect with Linda. If that negativity was pretty extreme, it's possible that she may have some self-imposed isolation as well.


I think she said there was a lot of self imposed isolation. My problem with the obliviousness is the complete and utter totality of it. Not just boys are on the receiving end. Females as well, though she's a lot more comfortable with females than males, she seems just as unable to read their cues as well. I don't think she's lacking in intelligence, she certainly seems bright enough and willing to learn, though if something contradicts what she wants she tends to ignore it, be incapable of grasping the concept of it or file it in the "not important" category (as this strip illustrates her struggle to do so). Frankly, while I wouldn't have put it quite as bluntly as Linda, I share some of her 'wtf' moment with this behavior. And Katia seems unable to understand anything unless it's put to her as bluntly as possible.

What I'm seeing as her willingness to accept people at face value may instead be a complete and utter inability to read any cue more subtle than the most basic and complete utter emotional response. Even her 'enthusiasm' seems to be an extension of this inability having her go gung ho with every little situation (such as when she caught Jon and Candi sitting on the floor chatting, and she coupled them up because of it, or saw flirting in the antagonism between Candi and Chris, or 'accidentally' swiped dozens of boys on Candi's smart phone). Though in retrospect, that Chris thing could have been her being very insightful, it probably attributed more to her complete and total "BOYS!!!" mindset than any insight. There is no moderation, no middle ground, just all or nothing. I've known people like this, but their energy is so taxing, both physically and mentally. In this instance, as with others I've known, a little bit of Katia goes a loooooooong way.

I don't think we've seen how she interacts with Trevor and Jon in the strip yet beyond initially being dumbstruck by the whole coed existence? How is she getting along with them, one-on-one? I wonder if she's an only child or has any siblings--I'm thinking only child from the level of social stunting as siblings would have allowed her to step out of this "me me me" mentality somewhat and allowed her to get familiar with visual/aural cues from other people, especially ones her own age. Has she still not learned that "people lie" even after all this time?

Not so long ago, Laura gave her some advice that I think said (paraphrased), "If you are getting too close, break it off for both your sakes". To her credit, she tried, but because Thad (for his own reasons) gave her the response she wanted, she never looked beyond face value at it.

She's young though, and outside of Candi I find her character arc one of the more interesting ones in the strip. As long as she generally keeps moving forward instead of taking huge strides backwards, with a stumble now and then, I find her mostly believable and a sympathetic character.

I'm gonna be freaked out if we learn she's a child prodigy psych major and all this has just been her social experiment. :shock:
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Re: I just wanted to know how his date went..27-07-2015

Postby RDrd » Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:32 am

Ultra-protective parents and self-imposed isolation honestly doesn't fully explain it.

For ultra-protective parents: first of all, she went to a school which taught its students how to use protection and safe sex. If she'd previously been homeschooled by the kind of parents that wanted to shield her form the world, that wouldn't've happened.
Second of all, we'd have to believe she was allowed NO friends and that her parents were either incredibly honest or just didn't show emotions, and then why wouldn't she be interested in making friends in general? It seems like she expected the roommates to be her friends and that was that. (also- I just realized, it seems like she went to a private school but is in the scholarship house, either her parents lost a lot of money or girl is SMART. Not really relevant.)
Third of all, the casual sex thing doesn't really fit- those types are more like Anna from Frozen, they have ideas about true love from story books. I'm not saying she can't be like that, I'm saying that there's more to the story.

For self-imposed isolation: I was like that as well, and I actually know a woman who has a similar social obliviousness to Katia. But rather than assuming no one could be upset, she assumes that she's annoying people. And I do the same thing- I can easily tell when someone's annoyed at me (or assume they must be) and have a very hard time recognizing when someone actually wants to be my friend. If Katia was that negative fairly recently, this overly bubbly fairy princess thing is one heck of a heel-face-turn. Something had to have caused it, and she is either willfully refusing to pick up on negative social cues or genuinely doesn't know they're there: either way, after going through such a negative phase, why?

Now, again, I'm not saying this is bad or she's a bad person or that this is bad writing- I'm saying, there's very likely something else going on here and I'd like to know what. It's very intriguing to me.

Her view of sex especially, and that she walks the talk. Sex is very tied up with emotion in our culture, and in sheltered households that's even more so (sex is only between husband and wife for the purpose of babies, no dating until you're married, etc). A LOT of people who try casual sex end up getting their emotions wrapped up in it and it falls apart. Even Laura fell into that trap, she meant to be casual with Trevor then got herself hurt. The naive, sheltered virgin traipsed into a massive drama minefield for her first time and barely cares. She's even able to get along with Linda now.

I think she either has a serious lack of empathy or is so determined to see the best in things that she's actually refusing to see anything that might be bad. Either way, I'm VERY curious.

cursormortis wrote:Seriously, you know who else had those traits? Hermione Granger. Traits don't mean shit. It's all in how you use them.

I realize this is going on a wild ride: but, seriously, Hermione Granger is actually the ultimate Slytherin. If it weren't for plot/bigotry, that's the house she'd have been in. I don't mean that she would've been a death eater- but she wasn't just courageous or intelligent, she was cunning and willing to do about anything it took to meet her ends. Remember when she turned a woman into a bug, kept said woman in a jar, and shook it up for fun?
Last edited by RDrd on Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I just wanted to know how his date went..27-07-2015

Postby cursormortis » Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:05 am

I subscribe to the headcanon that says you only get put into Gryffondor if you have the balls to ask or tell the Sorting Hat to put you there. Which would mean 11-year-old Hermione had tye bravery to choose it. And, as choices really are more important that innate traits (something the books make sure to point out), that makes her a Gryffindor. Otherwise, she'd have been Ravenclaw.

To me, Slytherin is about cunning and ambition. The occasional dark or questionable act is one thing, but Slytherins wouldn't hesitate in stepping over to the dark side regularly if it achieves their goals. Similarly, they would try to find other methods or pass of their darkness as light in order to prevent loss of respect. Voldy was a crappy Slytherin. Hermione might have been okay, but Snape was the ultimate.
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Re: I just wanted to know how his date went..27-07-2015

Postby Warrl » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:08 am

Think about how fanatical some recent converts to a religion (any religion) are. They see EVERYTHING through the lens of their new faith, and think EVERYONE should be like them. Your computer's getting old and the power supply is failing? Just change to their religion and their deity will take care of things for you.

Some recent ex-smokers are the same way.

And, perhaps, so is Katia.
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Re: I just wanted to know how his date went..27-07-2015

Postby Attalus » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:33 am

cursormortis wrote:
Attalus wrote:No, I would prefer someone who is empathetic, humble, peppy, and sweet natured. You must never have been associated with many weasel-people. Those traits (smart, cunning, clever, and observant) are not innately likable traits. Hitler was all of the above, as was the "clever girl" velociraptor.

Welp. Godwin's Law, everybody. I guess this discussion is over. Attalus wins because Nazis.

Seriously, you know who else had those traits? Hermione Granger. Traits don't mean shit. It's all in how you use them.
No points for the Velociraptor? :P I keep saying, those traits are not inherently likable. It doesn't have to be Hitler, though he did exhibit all those traits. It could be any one of several historical monsters like Genghis Khan or Tamerlane who also were "smart, cunning, clever, and observant." Not to speak of such equivocal figures as Julius Caesar, Bismarck, and Talleyrand, just off the top of my head.
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Re: I just wanted to know how his date went..27-07-2015

Postby cursormortis » Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:10 pm

1. Bismarck was awesome and also kinda a dick but still totally awesome. That's really all I had to say about that.

2. Traits are not inherently likable or unlikable. Pretty much every character trait out there can be used to make a character likable or unlikable. Richard from Looking For Group is a homicidal maniac who kills and maims for fun and laughs about it. But he's likable because he crosses the line twice and makes it funny. Every character in Something Positive is a terrible person but a fun charscter because it's portrayed as the norm and set in contrast to the stupidity of the general population. Likability of a character has more to do with how the traits are portrayed and combined, and with the audience's personal experiences, than with the trait itself. Me, I like a smart cunning intelligent and observant character. They're interesting and in that way likable.
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Re: I just wanted to know how his date went..27-07-2015

Postby Acidbuk » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:40 am

cursormortis wrote:
Attalus wrote:
tounces7 wrote:Seriously?

So you'd prefer someone who is dumb, dull, foolish, and negligent?
No, I would prefer someone who is empathetic, humble, peppy, and sweet natured. You must never have been associated with many weasel-people. Those traits (smart, cunning, clever, and observant) are not innately likable traits. Hitler was all of the above, as was the "clever girl" velociraptor.

Welp. Godwin's Law, everybody. I guess this discussion is over. Attalus wins because Nazis.

Seriously, you know who else had those traits? Hermione Granger. Traits don't mean shit. It's all in how you use them.


Hermione is totally bad arse!

As for Linda...I feel weird saying this but she is very right about this, and Frankly as adorable as Katia is most of the time, she's needed the Clue-Stick for a while now and I'm glad she is getting it...strange that its coming from Linda of all people, but sometimes people surprise you, they lie, cheat, steal and pick your pocket at every turn but when push comes to shove, they have your back..and you can't imagine anyone else you'd rather have there
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