Think About How Other People Feel (4/13/15)

[BenjaminT]

With Katia, its all a mask, Put on a happy face and smile for the crowd. its all awkward because she isn't being herself, she's being someone that she thinks everyone else wants her to be.

Hmm... while that's possible, I'm not sure we have enough evidence (if any) to conclude that what she thinks other people wants factors into any of her decisions. I mean, I don't think she wants to hurt anyone's feelings but I don't know that she's making any choices based on what people want from her. *shrug* maybe I've missed it, though.

[Sylvanaerie]

With Katia, its all a mask, Put on a happy face and smile for the crowd. its all awkward because she isn't being herself, she's being someone that she thinks everyone else wants her to be.

Hmm... while that's possible, I'm not sure we have enough evidence (if any) to conclude that what she thinks other people wants factors into any of her decisions. I mean, I don't think she wants to hurt anyone's feelings but I don't know that she's making any choices based on what people want from her. *shrug* maybe I've missed it, though.

She has, on occasion worried about hurting other people's feelings...well, on at least one, where she sought advice from Laura on how to address an open (or FWB) situation with Thad. So, it's not deliberate, it's just very centered in a "Me first" attitude.

Katia has some fine and admirable qualities, I love her enthusiasm and her courage to step outside her comfort zone, which I feel she doesn't give herself enough credit for. She just needs to learn to curb that enthusiasm when other people's feelings are involved. Not everyone has the same level of comfort, and maybe to Thad dating isn't the 'date sim' Katia seems to see it as.

[Prestwick]

Regardless of what kind of guy Thad/Thud is, it isn't fair or right to bounce him into talking about stuff that he isn't comfortable talking about. If he doesn't want to talk about it then he doesn't want to talk about it, its as simple as that.

Haranguing him into revealing information about his personal life for her personal gain is just plain rude.

[ShadeTail]

The point about Katia and Linda being bookends, is a fair one. also an interesting one too. the differences though is, With Katia, its all a mask, Put on a happy face and smile for the crowd. its all awkward because she isn't being herself, she's being someone that she thinks everyone else wants her to be. Katia is pretending to be a better person - throwing herself into the role hoping to make it real but she still doesn't quite get it, but she's trying. Linda though is, despite moments of clarity is wallowing. there a times when she almost makes the connection, but takes the path of least resistance instead. Perhaps because she fears exposing her flank only for someone to drive a knife into it, or perhaps gets that she is a terrible person, but isn't willing to make the effort to be better.

I think you're describing a distinction without a difference.They're *both* putting on masks that they believe will get them what they want without actually understand the hows and whys of interacting with other people. That causes them to be incredibly insensitive, because they run roughshod over other people's feelings without any idea of what they're doing.

That's the central point of my bookends metaphor: they're the same, but opposites. Katia is basically a good person, and Linda is basically a selfish person, and each assumes that people are generally the same as they are and will respond in kind. And then they get caught flat-footed when they don't get the reaction they expected. And neither of them have learned any better yet, though they're both showing signs of progress.

[clif]

I'm not even sure why everyone is calling it an "Open Relationship".
I mean, that implies that they ARE serious, but that they have an understanding where they sleep with other people.
The thing is - Katy said essentially she does NOT want to be serious with Thad. So they aren't really a "thing" they just hang out occasionally.
http://candicomics.com/d/20131220.html

Disagree, but mostly over meanings of words.

Katia and Thad do not in fact have a serious relationship. They do however quite clearlly have a relationship. They have an expressed intent to continue seeing each other.

An open relationship does not require sleeping with other people. It only requires the freedom to sleep with other people. It's an important distinction. Are Katia and Thad free to date and even go to bed with other people while contuing to occasionally date? Yes, they are.

They have a relationship. It is an open relationship

Also, yeah, this really isn't an open relationship. They are friends with benefits at most, and arguably not even that.

And they aren't friends with benifits. Being friends with benefits requires an agreement to provide each other benefits without the strong emotional attachment. They've discussed continuing to date each other on occasion, nothing beyond that.

...They're *both* putting on masks that they believe will get them what they want without actually understand the hows and whys of interacting with other people. That causes them to be incredibly insensitive, because they run roughshod over other people's feelings without any idea of what they're doing.

That's the central point of my bookends metaphor: they're the same, but opposites. Katia is basically a good person, and Linda is basically a selfish person, and each assumes that people are generally the same as they are and will respond in kind. And then they get caught flat-footed when they don't get the reaction they expected. And neither of them have learned any better yet, though they're both showing signs of progress.

And +1 for insight.

[Freakazoid]

Dude. Best response EVER.

[Acidbuk]

The point about Katia and Linda being bookends, is a fair one. also an interesting one too. the differences though is, With Katia, its all a mask, Put on a happy face and smile for the crowd. its all awkward because she isn't being herself, she's being someone that she thinks everyone else wants her to be. Katia is pretending to be a better person - throwing herself into the role hoping to make it real but she still doesn't quite get it, but she's trying. Linda though is, despite moments of clarity is wallowing. there a times when she almost makes the connection, but takes the path of least resistance instead. Perhaps because she fears exposing her flank only for someone to drive a knife into it, or perhaps gets that she is a terrible person, but isn't willing to make the effort to be better.

I think you're describing a distinction without a difference.They're *both* putting on masks that they believe will get them what they want without actually understand the hows and whys of interacting with other people. That causes them to be incredibly insensitive, because they run roughshod over other people's feelings without any idea of what they're doing.

That's the central point of my bookends metaphor: they're the same, but opposites. Katia is basically a good person, and Linda is basically a selfish person, and each assumes that people are generally the same as they are and will respond in kind. And then they get caught flat-footed when they don't get the reaction they expected. And neither of them have learned any better yet, though they're both showing signs of progress.

Agreed and Agreed *nods* Again a Fair Point. But here is the thing from where I'm seeing it, - I'm not actually sure Katia is a good person. she's seen what a 'good' person should be and is trying to emulate it and make the Façade real. but she hasn't quite got it yet so it comes off as awkward and there are moments when she does run roughshod over peoples feelings. That she is trying to be a good person, does make her a better person than she gives herself credit for.

[ShadeTail]

Agreed and Agreed *nods* Again a Fair Point. But here is the thing from where I'm seeing it, - I'm not actually sure Katia is a good person. she's seen what a 'good' person should be and is trying to emulate it and make the Façade real. but she hasn't quite got it yet so it comes off as awkward and there are moments when she does run roughshod over peoples feelings. That she is trying to be a good person, does make her a better person than she gives herself credit for.

Also a fair point. I suppose it comes down to whether Katia's recognition of who she was and her push not to be that person is enough to give her the benefit of the doubt.

[BenjaminT]

Disagree, but mostly over meanings of words.

Katia and Thad do not in fact have a serious relationship. They do however quite clearlly have a relationship. They have an expressed intent to continue seeing each other.

An open relationship does not require sleeping with other people. It only requires the freedom to sleep with other people. It's an important distinction. Are Katia and Thad free to date and even go to bed with other people while contuing to occasionally date? Yes, they are.

They have a relationship. It is an open relationship

I guess it depends on how you define a relationship. Technically, a friendship is a kind of relationship. Would that make nearly all friendships "open relationships"? Do Candi and Jon have an "open relationship"? I think most people use the phrase "open relationship" with connotations well beyond just a relationship that is open. *shrug*

And honestly, at this point I'm not sure that Katia and Thad do have a relationship beyond a friendship at this point. Sure, they agreed to keep seeing each other but I'm not sure that Thad is sold yet on whether he really wants any romantic outings with her anymore or not. He has seemed so deflated lately that I'm not sure I've seen him genuinely happy to see Katia since she hit the brakes on their relationship. Even Katia seems a bit more interested in continuing their relationship because she's comfortable with him more than because she has continued romantic interest in him. At best, that sounds like a friendship.

Now, this all could change. Thad and Katia may have renewed interest in each other down the road...but I don't really see it lately. Every relationship has it's ups and downs, though, so maybe I'm not giving theirs enough credit. Not every encounter with my wife would look romantic to an outsider. That doesn't mean we've devolved to just a friendship. I sure would like to see an encounter between the two of them sometime soon where they both walk away happier, though.

[Acidbuk]

Agreed and Agreed *nods* Again a Fair Point. But here is the thing from where I'm seeing it, - I'm not actually sure Katia is a good person. she's seen what a 'good' person should be and is trying to emulate it and make the Façade real. but she hasn't quite got it yet so it comes off as awkward and there are moments when she does run roughshod over peoples feelings. That she is trying to be a good person, does make her a better person than she gives herself credit for.

Also a fair point. I suppose it comes down to whether Katia's recognition of who she was and her push not to be that person is enough to give her the benefit of the doubt.

I think it is, most of the time. the fact she's at least trying says a lot about her character as a person. she's willing to risk exposing he flanks, even though she is aware someone might drive a knife into it the "reward" of being a better person means enough to her that she is willing to take the risk. even if sometimes the 'old Katia' surfaces at terrible moments like well, now .

Linda though...there are moments I can see the light spark in her, then go out again. Alex I'm certain is a lost cause at this point