"So I'm Thinking of Moving Out" - 12/29/2014

[Fereshte]

Acidbuk-- I can't quote because I'm on my iphone and it would be a pain but let me explain why my two statements are not contradictory. In scenario 1, Jon is going behind Candi's back to intervene in Candi/Alex's relationship. He tries to block Alex from talking to Candi. He listens to a plan being made to split Candi and Alex apart. All this is done without Candi's consent and behind her back. By being a part of this, he is making choices for Candi or trying to step into this paternal/protector role (without Candi's consent).

Scenario 2, Jon is told by Linda how she plans to break up Alex/Candi. He refuses to be a part of the plan but he is well aware of it and does nothing (there as aiding in the plan). Jon is making a choice to continue to allow Linda to go through with mission break-up.

These scenarios aren't as simple as "intervene/don't intervene." Friendship isn't that cut and dry. In fact, these scenarios are nothing alike so they can't really be compared. At best, they can be summed up as saying scenario 1 Jon is sabotaging the relationship and scenario 2 Jon is allowing the relationship to be sabatoged. Either way, both are messed up.

What Jon SHOULD have done:
Scenario 1: I don't mind Jon taking Alex aside and having words with him about Alex being an asshat and that he hurt Candi. I don't mind Jon being rude to Alex or disliking Alex. What I do mind is Jon trying to block Alex from talking to Candi. Not his place. I mind Jon thinking it would be best for Candi if he broke the two up.

Scenario 2: Jon should've told Candi that Linda was out to hurt and betray Candi. This is NOT Jon overstepping his role but warning a friend that someone wants to harm her.

[LadyObvious23]

I'm curious as to why you guys refer to it as a "parent" role.

Thank you, Shadowfey, I think you said it far better than I did.

Edward, the reason we see these actions as the "parent" role is because a parent can and will tell their child what is best for her/him, and then step in to ensure that what the parent feels is best is what happens. So a parent can tell a child who not to be friends with because the parent has the vantage point of wisdom, experience, and authority. The parent and child are not in equal roles (at least for as long as the child is not an adult). Once the child is an adult, the parent has to consider that the child now is in a position to make her own choices and suffer the consequences, no matter how much the parent may want to step in (within reason. Again, we're not talking about severe abuse).

For a "friend" to do this to another friend is to say "I have the vantage point of wisdoms, experience, and authority over you. We are not equal." The friend may mean well and may feel he/she is acting out of love, but it's severely overstepping, patronizing, and treating the other not as an equal. I may appreciate the sentiment but never the action.

Jon knew what Linda was up to and didn't tell or warn Candi. In my opinion, that is still being an active participant.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

Aren't those two statements a bit contradictory ? seems like your saying if he intervenes he's a terrible friend....and if he doesn't...he's a terrible friend.

Not worth the risk, not worth the bother. There is indeed the possibility that they are harmless. But since rapists, emotional abusers, and others aren't dyed blue or sorted into Slytherin for easy identification, the possibility that they aren't harmless is too big to be ignored. Plus, why would I want to interact with someone that creeps me out? -snip-

Oh for Fu....are we are the point we're actually comparing Jon to a Rapist now? I swear this gets more ridiculous every time it comes up.

Ehh I don't think Jess would be okay with Jon's lusting after Candi. Jon is a bit too flighty for her too. Also personality wise they're more polar opposites than Chris/Candi. (Yes I ship but I'm even acknowledging that.)

Oh I dunno, Lady O. Jess' "No Bullshit" Approach might actually be what Jon needs to sort out his head space. Opposites attract sometimes.

Good point. She could give him the kick in the butt he needs.

[shadowfey]

Acidbuk-- I can't quote because I'm on my iphone and it would be a pain but let me explain why my two statements are not contradictory. In scenario 1, Jon is going behind Candi's back to intervene in Candi/Alex's relationship. He tries to block Alex from talking to Candi. He listens to a plan being made to split Candi and Alex apart. All this is done without Candi's consent and behind her back. By being a part of this, he is making choices for Candi or trying to step into this paternal/protector role (without Candi's consent).

Scenario 2, Jon is told by Linda how she plans to break up Alex/Candi. He refuses to be a part of the plan but he is well aware of it and does nothing (there as aiding in the plan). Jon is making a choice to continue to allow Linda to go through with mission break-up.

These scenarios aren't as simple as "intervene/don't intervene." Friendship isn't that cut and dry. In fact, these scenarios are nothing alike so they can't really be compared. At best, they can be summed up as saying scenario 1 Jon is sabotaging the relationship and scenario 2 Jon is allowing the relationship to be sabatoged. Either way, both are messed up.

What Jon SHOULD have done:
Scenario 1: I don't mind Jon taking Alex aside and having words with him about Alex being an asshat and that he hurt Candi. I don't mind Jon being rude to Alex or disliking Alex. What I do mind is Jon trying to block Alex from talking to Candi. Not his place. I mind Jon thinking it would be best for Candi if he broke the two up.

Scenario 2: Jon should've told Candi that Linda was out to hurt and betray Candi. This is NOT Jon overstepping his role but warning a friend that someone wants to harm her.

This is pretty much how I see it as well. It's not so much that Jon is innately creepy and wrong all the time as he started bad with these decisions, and has made some uncomfortable subsequent decisions, that make him seem like a bad friend to Candi (in my opinion). Not the worst friend in the universe, but best-case selfish and kinda manipulative.

[Skadi The Slamazon]

Saw that Edward got the hamer. So yea, nothing to see here.

[g33x0R]

Oh wow, I totally missed this -- and could have come back much sooner. Also, that was the best use of an animated GIF in any post, anywhere, ever.

Thanks Starline. :-)


Cheers,
Patrick.